Q. What's the mindset to #1?
The mindset for #1 is continual improvement. It's not something that can be achieved immediately. Getting from 20 to 1 there are 20 steps to climb though some of those gaps are small and some are large. But the fact is that there is no one item that gets you there either. You need to work on everything to make even small continual incremental steps. Simplification, patience as well as a small bit of obsession go a long way!
Q. When you say 'continual improvement', what does that actually look like day-to-day? Like… what are the kinds of things you're pushing people to do, or notice, or fix?
It's not one big programme. It's a habit. It's getting people to look at something and go, 'that could be a bit cleaner', 'that could be faster', 'that could be simpler for the customer', 'why do we do it that way?'
A lot of it is small. How we test. How we release. How we document. How we respond when something breaks. How quickly we get the right person on the job. Little improvements that compound.
Q. And how do you stop 'continuous improvement' becoming just… busywork? Like loads of tweaks, but nothing that matters.
You keep it tied to outcomes. Customer outcomes. Network outcomes. You can improve internally all you want, but if it doesn't show up in quality, reliability, security, speed of support, then it's just activity.
So we're tight on what matters. Loose on how you get there. People can do things in different ways, use different tools, but the end result has to be better for the customer.
Q. Looking back, are there small or unexpected changes or habits that turned out to make a disproportionate difference — things that might seem trivial at the time, or that other companies might simply overlook or be unwilling to do?
The small things that have made a big difference… bumping into people that have become large customers. Habits - challenging norms and status quo…
Q. The 'bumping into people' part is funny, because that sounds like luck. But you don't really believe it's just luck, do you? What are you doing that makes those 'bump into' moments happen?
It looks like luck from the outside. But you can create conditions where it's more likely.
We show up. We go to where customers are. We spend time. We talk. We listen. We do things that don't have an immediate ROI on a spreadsheet.
And then you meet someone, or you're in a conversation, and it turns into something. Sometimes years later.
Q. And when you say 'challenging norms and status quo'… what are the norms you most enjoy challenging in telecoms?
The idea that everything needs committees and approvals. The idea that you can't move quickly because "that's telecoms". The idea that vendors just sell what they have and the operator has to fit around it.
We challenge that. If something needs doing, do it. If the customer needs a change, make it. If the answer isn't our product, we'll say that too. It sounds basic but it's not common.
Q. As the company has grown, what role does leadership play in encouraging people to challenge norms and the status quo rather than default to 'the way it's done'?
Leadership sets the tone. If leaders punish people for speaking up, or if every decision has to go up a chain, people stop challenging anything.
So the job is to create space. Space to try things. Space to say "this is stupid, why are we doing it?" Space to make a call without fear.
And you have to protect that. Because as you grow, the natural drift is towards process and caution. Some process is necessary, but you can't let it kill initiative.
Q. What does 'creating space' actually mean in practice? Is it structure, is it attitude, is it who you hire…?
It's all of it. Hiring is big — curious people who want to improve things rather than just follow instructions. Structure matters too. Small teams. Short decision paths. Autonomy. The person closest to the problem should be able to fix it, not write a document and wait.
And attitude, yes. Leaders need to listen first. Not walk in and 'perform leadership'. Ask good questions and let people think.
Q. Have you ever had moments where you thought, 'we're starting to get too corporate here'? What did you do?
Yes. It happens. It creeps in quietly. More meetings. More layers. More "we'll get back to you".
Usually the fix is simplification. Pull decisions back down. Remove steps. Make it normal again for someone to just go in and sort something out.
You don't need drama, you just need to notice it early and correct it.
Q. You mentioned earlier 'a small bit of obsession goes a long way.' Obsession about what, exactly?
Details that matter. Quality. Reliability. Customer experience.
In signalling and security, the small things are the big things. A tiny weakness becomes a big issue later. A small delay becomes a real customer impact.
So you want people who care. Not in an unhealthy way, but that they don't accept sloppy.
Q. How do you balance that with psychological safety, because obsession can sometimes turn into pressure.
Psychological safety doesn't mean 'no standards'. It means people can speak up, admit mistakes early, ask for help without fear.
High standards and safety can exist together. In fact they need each other. If people are scared, they hide problems. If they hide problems, quality drops.
So we want people to raise issues early. Treat mistakes as data. Fix them fast. Learn. Move on.
Q. One thing you've said a few times over the years is that relationships matter more than most people think. Why?
Because telecoms is built on trust. A contract doesn't save you at 2am when something goes wrong. A relationship does. A strong relationship means honest conversations, faster resolution, better collaboration, better outcomes.
And it's also how you learn. Customers will tell you things in a real relationship that they'll never put in a formal communication.
Q. Is that why you've been so supportive of the 'show up in person' approach, like the Africa road trip?
Exactly. You land in a place, you sit down, you talk properly, and the conversation is different.
You're not on a 30 minute call rushing to the next meeting. You're there. You get context. You hear what's really going on.
It's not efficient on paper. But it's effective. And in the long run, it pays back.
Q. You're known for being calm and not particularly 'loud'. What do you think people get wrong about leadership?
They think leadership is about having the loudest opinion. Or being the person with all the answers. I think it's more about creating conditions where other people can do their best work. Listening first. Asking better questions. Making sure people have what they need.
If you hire talented people and then micromanage them, you're wasting them.
Q. You've also said before, 'if the answer isn't our product, that's the answer.' That's unusual for a vendor. Why hold that line?
Because it builds trust. And because it's the right way to work with partners.
Long term, customers remember who told them the truth. And they come back.
Also, it keeps you honest internally. If you can't solve a problem well, you either say it or you improve until you can.
Q. What are you most proud of in terms of how the company has been built?
Proud isn't the word I use, but I'm happy with the culture we've protected.
We've stayed close to the customer. We've kept decision-making practical. We've stuck to signalling and become genuinely world-class at it.
And we've developed people. Seeing interns grow into senior leaders, that's a big thing.
Q. Why do you think people development has worked so well here?
Because we give people real responsibility early. We don't overprotect. We back them.
And we keep teams small enough that your work matters. If you're good, you're not hidden in a big org chart. You can have impact.
Q. When you look at the next few years what's the main thing you want Cellusys to keep doing, no matter how the industry changes?
Keep adapting without losing what makes us good. Telecoms will change — 5G, 6G, regulations, fraud methods, new business models. That's normal.
The danger is losing the habits: continual improvement, simplicity, staying close to customers, and the willingness to challenge the status quo. If we keep those (we will), we'll stay #1.
Q. Final one: if you could give one simple piece of advice to someone joining the company tomorrow, what would it be?
Be curious. Don't accept 'that's how it's done.' Keep things simple. Focus on what helps the customer succeed. And make small improvements every day, they add up faster than you think.
